Subs

[vividjazz]

Everyone loves a little doof, doof, doof.

Subs chew more power than other speakers so need sizable amps. AB class amps are used for full range speakers. These can be bridged (set to one channel) to run a sub. D class amps are more efficient than AB class amps and specially designed to just run subs.

Due to the small interior of the Jazz it doesn't need 4 subs or even 2 to put a big car to shame. In fact the guys on the Fit forum in Singapore pretty much agree a single 10" sub is the optimal setup.

For a 250W-300W RMS D class amp its recommended you run it off a dedicated battery. Run 2 of these and you should run 2 dedicated batteries and upgrading the cars alternator. This is probably too extreme a setup for most people so lets step it back a little.

Say you have about a $600-$700 budget for a nice D class amp and a Sub what can you get? We want sound quality not just lots of doof, doof.

The sub will need a box. A sealed box is the simplest and probably the most effective in a Jazz. Ported boxes are good for tuning a specific frequency and need to be larger and bandpass boxes are very hard to setup right. A good premade or custom built solid well sealed box with baffling will set you back about $100-$150.

Some nice 10" subs
Vibe Blackair II 10 $290
Digital Design DD1010 $240
Crossfire db310 $160
Treo TSi 10.4 $270
Image Dynamics ID10V.3 $300
Hertz HX250 $300
Phoenix Gold R10 $160
This list is by no means exhaustive.

Next I'll look at some amps to drive these subs. Our budget for an amp is tight with only $300-$400 left. D class amps are expensive and we may also have to look at some other amps to expand our choice (within buget) to give us the power we need to drive these subs.

[vividjazz]

Amps for our 10" sub
Crossfire VR401 1x200W RMS $440
Audison SR2 bridged to 170W RMS $285 (unfortunately the ideal SR1 210W monoblock is $535)
Digital Design DDC1 350W RMS $430

If possible try and increase the budget to expand your amp options.

The other option is to have a 4 channel amp run your fronts off 2 channels and bridge the other 2 channels for the sub. Some 5 channel amps are also around like the Crossfire vr705d.

And don't forget we will need correct gauge (for particular application) good quality cable to hook the amp up and earth it properly.

Most subs don't come with a grill so this is an additional and a good idea if carrying things in the boot. You don't want to puncture the sub's cone.

[vividjazz]

My personal pick would probably be the DD1010 300W RMS sub and the DDC1 amp. These are hand assembled in the USA. Got an old school hardcore look.

[ahcash]

vividjazz,

Need to get some professional advise from you regarding to the car audio setup.. I am not a car audio enthusiast like you.. so dun recommend $2K setup for me.. okay.. .. All I probably need is a richer sound and some bass. I don;t crank it up until I go deaf...I think the original speakers are good enough for my everyday use... however, I reckon it can be improve to a richer level and also lacks some deep bass...

I do not want to compromise my boot neither as the mrs use it as a shopping trolley and the next thing you know.. I could have carrots sticking out of the subwoofer port...

Anyway.. I was thinking of the following (Clarion SRV303 Active Subwoofer) which I can put it under my seat to increase the bass but will probably need an amp to drive the existing 4 speakers? (stage 2 upgrade)... What do you reckon? I have a tight budget and only have $400 - $500 to spend including installation...


# Built-In 120-Watt High Power Amplifier
# 7" Counter Drive Subwoofer
# Selectable Crossover at 50/75/100/120Hz
# Adjustable Input Gain
# Selectable Phase
# RCA Line Level Input
# Speaker Level Input
# Detachable Control Panel With 16’ Extension Cable Included
# Flexible Mounting Capability

[vividjazz]

Not alot of space under the seats with the fuel tank. I looked at putting an amp under there. Not keen on putting screws in near the fuel tank either.

The best of the combined sub/amps is the original SAS Bazooka bass tubes. They even do ones now that look like blue NOS bottles. Like that Clarion they can be easily unplugged and taken out but the sound will be alot better. You should be able to get a SAS with built in amp in your price range.

www.bazooka.com/productImages/157.jpg

[blk]

hey vividjazz
i'm thinking of upgrading the speakers too... and planning to add a sub and an amp for deeper bass
but as ahcash has mentioned... the car is used as a shopping trolley sometimes..and parents going overseas every now and then with luggages... are there any subs that are detachable?? this might sound stupid tho.. but plz shoot me some suggestions.. budget would be around $600 - $800?

[vividjazz]

blk said:

hey vividjazz
i'm thinking of upgrading the speakers too... and planning to add a sub and an amp for deeper bass
but as ahcash has mentioned... the car is used as a shopping trolley sometimes..and parents going overseas every now and then with luggages... are there any subs that are detachable?? this might sound stupid tho.. but plz shoot me some suggestions.. budget would be around $600 - $800?

I've got the same requirements. My sub box just unclips as do most. Being not so big can easily lift it out and even in doesn't take much space so can put the pram and baby bag and groceries in around it.

Some people attach their sub amp to the box so they can just detach the whole lot or you could go for one of the bazooka tubes with built in amp which also easily detach.

Is your budget for front speakers, sub and amps or just a sub amp and sub?

Cheapest option for your fronts would have to be either Jaycar Kevlar splits or the Crossfire SX6.0 splits. Amps again the Jaycar ones are good value for power. Cheapest way out would be a 4 channel, just bridge the rear channels to power the sub. As for a sub a 10" in a sealed box will give good doof doof for dollar and not take up your whole boot.

[blk]

hey that looks alright... how many inch is the sub u got there? is that the 10" u were talking about?

yeah my budget is for everything...speakers, amp and sub..
but u reckon the stock speakers are good enough along with the amp and the sub?

and where did u put ur amp? coz i realise its not much space under the driver seats or the passenger seat... i'm thinking of installing it under the rear seats or attach to the sub ...any other suggestions?

anyways thanks vividjazz..ur a champ!

[vividjazz]

Thats only an 8". I would have gone a 10" if I didn't already have that one around. You have more choice in subs in the 10" range.

Your priority should be the speakers rather than a sub. Sub only adds nice depth to the music. If the music isn't clear to start with then the sub no matter how good will sound muddy. ie. you won't get the full benefit from it.

Under the seats isn't a good spot for the amp because of the lack of space and hence not enough cooling and the bit that scares me is thats also the fuel tank. Don't want to be putting any screws near the fuel tank.

Behind the rear seats is a popular spot. I put mine in the spare tyre well. Carry a can of tyre goop instead of the spare. I figure if a can of tyre goop is good enough for Mercedes from the factory its good enough for me.

[blk]

ah nice...

yeah i'm thinking of upgrading the speakers first... and then go with a 10"
i was told to go with 12"... so do i need a more powerful amp to go along with that?

oh yeah i thing i forgot to say..i've got a in car DVD... do i go with the same set up u suggested?

sorry dude...too many questions ay? i'm a noob in this audio stuff... thanks for all the help!

[vividjazz]

The size of the sub doesn't necessarily dictate its power requirements but in general a bigger sub needs more power (bigger magnet to drive) but more importantly the box needs to be much bigger. Ported boxes bigger again than sealed. I personally think a 12" is too boomy inside the Jazz interior and I really like tight bass. Nothing worse than the last bass note resonating around and the next one trying to come through mixing with it.

RMS of your amps has to always equal or preferably exceed the RMS of the speakers. Completely ignore other power figures. ILS (if lightning strikes) ratings sound impressive but are meaningless.

If you want proper incar DVD then you need a full 5.1 setup = big, big dollars ($10,000+). You need center channel as well as full on fronts, rears and sub. Considerable amps, upgraded battery, if not secondary battery/batteries for amps. And of course the sound processor.

I'd rather do the cinema thing at home and just listen to music in the car. Not like you can watch anything while driving anyway. If I have to park somewhere to watch a movie then I'd rather be on the couch at home with the big / huge screen and fresh hot popcorn.

Cheapest solution that will still sound very good
Response 4x100W AMP $300-
6.5" Kevlar Response Splits $150- or Crossfire SX6.0 $150-
10" Profile Metal Coated Cone Sub $140- or 10" Crossfire CF310 $100-
Sub Box, Cabling and Soundproofing (at absolute minimum around front speakers)

[ahcash]

blk, you are using existing headunits or you already have a double DIN with after market headunit?

Also, vividjazz.. you mentioned

Cheapest way out would be a 4 channel, just bridge the rear channels to power the sub.

2 channels to drive the front left and right, bridge the other 2 channels for the sub.. what about the rear 2 speakers? probably need another amp?

[vividjazz]

Spend the money you would otherwise just be wasting on rears and extra amplification for rears on better fronts. Rears only benefit the rear passengers. If the passengers are paying for your new system by all means upgrade to benefit them. Rears just act as fill when your in the front.

Systems with big 6x9s and 7x10s and 7x11s in the rear overpowering everything are just so badly wrong for so many reasons.

You sit in the front of the car and your ears point forward.

When you go to a concert you don't pay $100+ for a ticket and then turn your back to the stage so why would you do the same thing in the car? 12 x 99c factory speakers still don't sound better than 2 good speakers. The music is only in stereo.

The sound stage is meant to be in the centre forward placing it somewhere about the middle of the bonnet. Front splits can be imaged to allow this by tricking the brain into thinking this is where the sound is coming from. Bass being nodirectional blends with this stage even though the sub is in the boot for logistical reasons. The sub isn't in the back because you want sound coming from behind.

Note this applies to normal music not 5.1 theatre setups where the very expensive processors does alot of the work of positioning and you want rear sound and different sound coming from different directions for effects. Plus you have an extra center channel for dialogue.

If you have very large or multiple amplifiers then you have to start upgrading the cars electrical system including the battery, then additional auxilary batteries, the alternator and on it goes. Just like doubling the engines power requires upgrades to handling and braking to compensate. Most of us have to strike a happy medium by only going as big as one battery will allow or within the limits of the stock battery.

[vividjazz]

Jaycar does a 400WRMS@4OHM D Class amp for only $400. It doesn't get any cheaper than a $1 per WRMS especially for a sub amp.

If you run this combined with a sizeable 2 or 4 channel amp then you need to upgrade the cars stock battery or you will have problems. People with sizeable systems often complain how their batteries keep dieing. You have to run the system with the engine running otherwise you might only be providing 8V-10V from the poor battery. Even so if the battery is simply not up to the task it will die. Having to buy a battery every 4-6 months starts to get a lot more expensive than a $400 Optima, Stinger or Odessey battery designed for the task and besides these batteries really look great and if properly maintained last a lot longer than conventional batteries.

[blk]

ahcash said:

blk, you are using existing headunits or you already have a double DIN with after market headunit?

yeah i already have a double DIN with Kenwood KVT-745DVD head unit...