MT versus CVT

[bluevti]

I think either you're getting confused, or have been given incorrect information regarding the 1.5 CVT versus the manual 1.5

If you can find the source, im prepared to be corrected, but having driven both, I found manual quicker 0-100. I have various aussie motor mags, which show the auto is slightly slower.

Here's something i scanned and put up previously, which shows the manual 0-100 times and quarter mile.

www.forbessa.com/jazz/performance.jpg

This was taken from an article in Wheels. If anyone is interested I did some other scans too:

sword.forbessa.com/jazz/frontpage.jpg
sword.forbessa.com/jazz/performance2.jpg
sword.forbessa.com/jazz/page3.jpg
sword.forbessa.com/jazz/page4.jpg

These don't show auto's times, but i havent seen any auto jazz's times that come close to these ones. From memory the auto's quarter mile time is in the low 17's.

I hope this doesnt seem like im auto bashing, as I really do like the CVT and would have bought it if my budget stretched that far.

[vividjazz]

MAX speed is higher for CVT because of lower gearing. I think the manual is faster to 100 though.

Temple of VTEC Asia did 8.9sec in the auto to 100. Print outs are on their site. He didn't do any runs in a manual.

Though haven't been much beyond 160km/hr myself but it certainly has more to go from 160 (main straight not long enough or more likely my entry speed onto the straight just not fast enough).

Auto CRV only can do a bit over 140 with a trailer. I know because we had one as a support vehicle in the Northern Territory (speed unlimited) and our Honda bikes had to wait hours at our destinations for the support vehicle to catch up each day. Blackbirds definitely can do 300 and most other Honda bikes can run all day well over 250. (Life begins over 200!)

[bluevti]

Wow I think i stand corrected! Perhaps the CVT is faster 0-100... Certainly didnt seem it when i drove it..

From asia.vtec.net/Reviews/JazzVtec/index.html:

The biggest contributor to the very good 0-60mph timing of the Jazz VTEC must be the CVT-7 gearbox. Having also tested a 1.4l Jazz, the 7-speed mode is crucial here because it allows me to lock a gear ratio, in this case, a comparatively high ratio (courtesy of having 7 gears) and quickly accelerate to redline with full drive to the front wheels. So acceleration in 1st gear is nice and prompt after the first couple thousand rpms. In fact, engine rpm climbs so fast after 3000rpm that I ended up pressing the 7speed mode button a little bit early to get into S-mode. This is because the gearbox will automatically upshift once it hits redline and it is just too easy to mis-react. Any slight delay and engine rpm will hit redline and the gearbox will upshift. So to ensure it doesn't, I tap the 7speed mode button once I visually see the tacho hit 5,800rpm just to be sure. Thereafter the engine rpm will hit 6,300rpm quickly and the Jazz surges forward, picking up speed very quickly. This optimum acceleration rate and lack of gearshift are the 2 key factors to the great time of 8.8 seconds for the 0-60mph run.

Perhaps we should try to arrange an ausfit test? 1.5 manual versus cvt?

[bluevti]

Summary of the two sources:

TOVA : auto Jazz VTEC best time 16.9 @ 141 km/h, 0-100 8.9 seconds
Wheels: manual vtec jass at 16.6 @ 134 km/m, 0-100 9.3 seconds

Interesting the very big difference in trap speed between CVT & Manual. I think that we probably would need to do a comparison under similar conditions to be able to say for sure as these results seem a little odd. Consider:

If the manual is slower to 100, and also has lower trap speed, how could it be faster over the quarter mile? For this to be the case, the manual would have to have a killer 100-115 km/h time, the kind you only get with nitrous lol ;-)

I think to find the truth, we'd have to get a cvt and manual, and test.

AAh I've just found a good explaination for the different times.. TOVA used "timed performance tests using a GTECH Pro". I think the GTECHS are renown for quoting too high trap speeds. The Wheels test was at a drag strip, i had assumed using the proper timing, but thinking about it, I don't know that for sure.

[ahcash]

smellytofu said:

With manual, you've got a bit more flexibility to slip the clutch a bit more to let the engine spin a bit more rather than get bogged down until the revs build up. But for the Jazz, I think the CVT will suit. I'll report on the freeway driving when I head to Canberra this weekend.

Smellytofu, any reports?

[TRoLL]

mmm....never drove CVT.....but i drove a triptronic Porsche 4S and although you can go fast in the car, was missing the fun of changing gears and feeling the power of the cars. Thats my 2 cents worth.

[SmellyTofu]

ahcash said:

Smellytofu, any reports?

CVT is the bomb! However, I know it's not as durable as the normal 4-5 speed slushbox.

I haven't driven the Jazz for a while but when I do, it's great. Only thing though is that it doesn't kickdown quick. It was the same for the Prius where there's that 1/2 sec - 1 sec delay.

[vividjazz]

smellytofu said:

ahcash said:

Smellytofu, any reports?

CVT is the bomb! However, I know it's not as durable as the normal 4-5 speed slushbox.

I haven't driven the Jazz for a while but when I do, it's great. Only thing though is that it doesn't kickdown quick. It was the same for the Prius where there's that 1/2 sec - 1 sec delay.

Haven't come across an auto yet that kicks down fast enough except the M3 SMG and Porsche triptronic. And yes I've driven both and also in manual form.

At least with CVT you don't have the problem you get with traditional autos of it not being in the right gear or constantly going 3rd to 4th and back again Commodore style.

[SmellyTofu]

I don't have that problem... I usually row the auto lever partially like a manual. I still like the good ol' manual.

[ahcash]

My mate always tell me... Aren't you glad that they have CVT in the Jazz... apart from the colt, the only CVT you can get are BMW or Porsche...