New Speakers

[thachng]

Hi again

I am thinking about buying speakers and I don't know much about them.

I have been told that jazz uses 4 inch speaks I was wonder if I bought 4 120watt 2 way speakers would it sound better then the current speaks?

Ones I am looking at is the sony expode ones currently $44 at strathfield.

Or should I look at the 6 inch ones with 3 way speakers.

[vividjazz]

Factory speakers are four 6" speakers. One in each door.

If you want to run off the factory head unit you will need very efficient speakers as the head unit has very very little power. Even those aftermarket high powered headunits advertised at 50Wx4 (Pioneer, Alpine, Clarion) are only 18Wx4 RMS (real power) at best. For more power amplifiers are necessary.

For example 75W RMS speakers (Crossfire x6) powered with 5W RMS (being very generous to the factory unit) from a headunit are going to sound aweful if you can hear anything at all.

Splits / component speakers (seperate woofer and tweeter with an included crossover) really require an amp to drive them. Even alot of splits need an amp.

I'd be surprised if $44 speakers from Strathfield sound any better than the factory paper speakers.

You need spacers to mount 6" or 6.5" speakers in the factory speaker holes as the factory speakers are attached via custom clips.

Make sure whatever speakers you get aren't too deep you still want to be able to put the door trim back on, and open and close the windows without hitting the back of the speaker.

From an audio perspective there is not much point going for 3 or 4 way speakers over coaxials (2 way). The best, most natural sounding speakers are made by speaker companies. Brands like Focal, Rainbow, Hertz, Diamond, Crossfire, Boston, Vibe, Morel, Phoenix Gold, Eton, Digital Designs, Phass and DynAudio. Notice the very distinct absence of Sony, Alpine, Pioneer and Kenwood from that list.

When selecting speakers make sure when they are demonstrated they are not running through any amp as they will sound different without an amp and remember they will also sound different with an aftermarket head unit as compared to the factory and they will sound different inside different cars. Your ears are the best judge of speakers so listen to as many different speakers as possible to determine what sounds best to you personally and work out what type of sound you like. The salesman only wants to shift stock and this weeks $40 door buster special is next weeks land fill.

Always ignore maximum output ratings on all audio equipment and look for the RMS power figure. Maximum output could only be achieved for a split second as lightning struck the product. Those 120W speakers are probably about 30W RMS. Even at 30W RMS most any head unit alone is not going to be able to supply that (remember those 50W mosfet blah head units are doing 18W).

What is your budget? If its $50 then just stick with the factory speakers and don't let Strathfield hack your car to pieces.

[nick]

man~~ U are so familiar with audio system. my Brother spend about a year to study all the audio information and end up telling me the same answer as U~~ yeah, I totally agree that don't just looking at the max output "W"~ make sure U look for the "RMS"~ seriously don't just get any speakers whether it is sub, mid-range, 2,3,4 way speakers and so on wihtout an "Amp"~ Amp is the most crucial gadget to decide the quality of the sound.

Ofcoz inevitable to say that "the audio player" might be "abit helpful" to the quality as well. Correct me if Im wrong. To me, most of the aftermarket speakers are about the same. The only different between the price would be the "special features", such as "preset memory like rock, jazz, classic" so that U don't have to set it manually, facelift security console bla bla bla, ofcoz the most different is the appearance of the player. I don't think a AUD300 Sony player would be better than a AUD2000 Sony player with color LCD sceen on it~~ it's just the matter of "aesthetic" rather than "sound quality" No offence to say that there are some player that could really make the sound differently, but imagine if U add sub or bigger speakers, (the max output for all the player could only go for 40-52W). I don't think there's any different with those crappy or factory players at all. So if U are looking for the cheapest way to mod your audio, U better get a good amp and speakers rather than getting all the "all in one" normal brand equipment. Until U have sufficient money, then get a better player~. Speakers and amp won't get outdated so it is good to invest more money on it.

Those audio player that I mention doesn't include "pre-amp". Don't get it confused, I know some of U might argue that there's lot of difference with aftermarket player. It does make the different if U are using current factory speakers, but not for aftermarket speakers.

[thachng]

but the speakers in the Jazz are fuzzy and not clear all i want is crispy sounds

So whats the max power of my head unit?

So I can go into the store and find speakers that are enough for my HU.

[bnefit]

good info vividjazz

[ahcash]

vividjazz has got the goodies..

[vividjazz]

See this thread on adding an amp while keeping the factory head unit.

ausfit.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=carstereo&action=display&thread=1131778916

The added expense of having to buy the double DIN facia and brackets to add an aftermarket head unit is a turn off to upgrading it but as the thread above talks about the factory head unit didn't make provisions for adding an amp or amps.

[vividjazz]

Best bang for buck upgrade to a stock sound system is always speakers.

You have to consider a budget and whether you want to add to the system down the track. I always like to keep my options open to a point (but you don't want to be paying for a heap of features your never going to use). Can be expensive and frustrating ripping stuff out that you've added in order to add a little further to a system.

We all want max quality sound for our dollars. One way of saving is to not to worry about the rear speakers. If you having to buy 2 sets of speakers you have less to spend on each than if your buying just one set. Your ears point forward. The sound stage should be about the middle of the front bonnet not where the speakers actually physically are and certainly not behind you. Rear speakers really only benefit any passengers in the back. Hey if they're paying for your system by all means do the rear up as well. When you go to a live concert the speaker stacks are in front of you not behind. Wouldn't be great if you car audio sounded as good or even better than a live concert.

The Jazz's grounding from the factory is excellent so its a bit harder to introduce system noise than on some other cars. People have got away with connecting an amp to the factory head unit without introducing lots of noise or resorting to dreadful inline noise filters (they filter out some of your music as well as some noise). On some cars this would be a near impossible feat.

Splits or seperates are better than co-axials because you have a proper crossover and can move the tweeter to maximise your sound stage. However as mentioned earlier these really need an amp to drive them. If your not worring about the rear speakers then you can get just a 2 channel amp or get a 4 channel and bridge to the 2 rear channels to run a sub. A better setup would be a proper D Class sub amp and a 2 channel but costs alot more not just for the amps themselves but for the increased wiring and possibly needing to upgrade the cars battery to support them.

When looking at an amp we are trying to match the power with the speakers. If the speakers are 50W RMS then we need at least a 2 channel 2 x 50W RMS amp. More amp power is better than less amp power. Underpowered speakers get driven into clipping if the volume gets turned up more than the amp can put out. You need a lot of power before you blow speakers because of overpowering. So a 2 x 100W RMS amp is not going to blow your 50W RMS speakers. The amp is just going to run lazier and consequently cooler.

Most good component speakers (splits) are about 50W to 60W RMS.

To get the most out of any speaker you need some soundproofing. Your speakers can sound many time better with just a bit of soundproofing. If you don't want to go to the expense of doing whole doors you can just do around the speakers. A dynamat extreme speaker kit is only $30. Put a baffle behingd the speaker like the dynaxorbs and you looking at a further $50.

Amazing how many people will spend hundreds even over a thousand dollars on a top notch set of speakers and then won't spend even $80 on some soundproofing. With some soundproofing a $200 set of speakers might sound better than a $1,000 set.

Its important to run good cable and the correct guage (thickness) cable for each application. I don't like that burnt electrical smell. With a nice 2 channel amp (2x50W) you'd generally be running a min 10 guage cable (lower the guage number the thicker the cable).

No one manufacturers brand makes the best eveyrthing. So getting a system all the same brand won't sound as good a mix of brands picking the eyes out of each of their product ranges. For example Alpine, Pioneer and Clarion make great head units. Crossfire, Audison and Phoenix Gold make great amps. Boston, Diamond and Focal make great speakers.

[pkng5]

thanks for all tht information vividjazz.... but just a quick question though... if I'm just using stock parts for audio and playing music on iPod via iTrip...is it still worth investing on quality front speakers and maybe even amps.... or it wouldn't make much different what so ever....(since it's dodgey quality to begin with...)

[vividjazz]

If you were working on say a $500 budget.

You would keep the factory head unit. Replacing it and the double DIN facia would eat too much of your budget.

Get a nice set of splits for the front around the $200 mark (this will limit your choice somewhat). Make sure the speakers aren't too deep so you can still get the door panel back on and open and close the window. You'll need spacers ($10) to mount the speakers as can't reuse the factory mounts.

Allow min $80 for soundproofing around the front speaker area including the diffusor behind.

Get a nice 2 channel amp for around $200. Even 35W RMSx2 is going to be heaps better than just an aftermarket head unit.

Finally allow a bit for cabling and connectors.

If your not hooking it up yourself then you'll have to pay a bit to an installer on top of your $500 budget.

A sample system would be
- Crossfire SX6.0 shallow mount 6" splits $150-
or Jaycar Precision 6.5" Kevlar Splits $150-
or Hertz DSK $165-
or Phoenix Gold (they want a bit more amp power though)
- Crossfire VR142 2x35W RMS Amp $200-
(Crossfire rates there amps at 12.5V not 14.4V so when compared to a lot of manufacturers you need to add at least 20% to their RMS figures - the VR142 would kill a lot of supposed 2x50W RMS amps)
- Dynamat Extreme door kit and Dynaxorb diffusors $80-
- Stinger cable and connectors $60- + Speaker Spacers $10-

If your budget would allow, spend a bit more on the speakers and you'll get a bigger range to choose from. For example a set of Boston S60 splits will set you back $350 or Focal Access 165A1 splits $310 or Phass ER 6.5 $300 or Diamond M361 $400 or Hertz ESK165 $230 or Vibe SAK60 $280 or Morel Pulse 6 $330.

Speakers are very personal. What sounds good to me might sound bad to you. Listen to as many different speakers as you can to learn what type of sound you like.

[vividjazz]

As the stock sound system stands you can't tell the difference between the radio and a CD. With a good system their is a marked difference between the 2 but the radio will still sound better than in the stock setup.

The AUX mod in the DIY section is an inexpensive way to directly connect an iPod to the factory head unit. Will sound better than the FM transmitter on a non stock system.

ausfit.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=1122253145

[vividjazz]

Nick I agree most of the difference between the aftermarket head units are real entry level no MP3 cabability, then more RCA outs as you go up the ranges, different asthetics (displays) and when you go to the high end - more powerful pre amping on the RCAs (greater than 1.5V) but then you're often spending thousands.

People will spend $500 on a head unit with bling bling but then skimp on speakers, no sound proofing and no amps or underpowered amps.

With good gear it lasts the life of multiple cars and you can transfer most equipment between cars unless the buyer of your old car can appreciate good sound and is willing to pay for it.

[vividjazz]

If your looking to upgrade just the speakers to run off the factory head unit look for speakers with very low nominal power handling (RMS).

Splits are definitely completely out. Less than 15W RMS speakers if possible.

You might resort to smaller speakers than 6" to get something with low enough power handling but a smaller speaker will produce less bass in general. Possibly 4"s co-axials may be the go but they'll need brackets to fit in the 6" holes. They need to seal properly into the doors (the factory speakers sound better than what they really are because they are quite well sealed into the doors). But at the end of the day if your going to downsize like that why bother changing the speakers as there are still going to be huge tradeoffs.